The Left

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mikelepore
Site Admin

Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 467

Posted: 08 Jan 2008 06:28 pm Post subject: The Left

Opinions about the political left wing

mikelepore
Site Admin

Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 467

Posted: 08 Jan 2008 06:33 pm Post subject:

In another topic, it was written:

The Greenman wrote:

Then you have the lunatic fringe that want to shoot, rob and bomb their way to revolution.

There's a lot about the left that bugs me.

I dislike the automatically-blame-America tendency. Some of them think everything the U.S. does is to be denounced. Not me. For example, I believe the president did exactly the right thing bombing the hell out of terrorist training camps in Afghanistan and using the military to topple the Taliban government. Unbelievably, one writer in newsgroup soc.politics.marxism even said that the attack on the World Trade Center wasn't tragic because the people killed there were, in his or her own words, "mostly stock broker scum."

I dislike the tendency of many on the left to belittle the principles of freedom of speech and freedom of religion, calling them "bourgeois abstractions." These are among the most valuable achievements of a million years of human history, and they snicker at them.

I dislike the tendency of most of the left to be soft on crime. Personally, I would vote to have a law that anyone who mugs somebody, yields a weapon at somebody, or commits any similar act of violence, not necessarily a lethal one, should get life sentence in prison, with, in some cases, eligibility for parole after serving a minimum of forty years, and the definition of prison should be to perform hard labor in shackles and chains for sixteen hours a day and 365 days a year, to generate a net financial benefit for the victims of the crime.

Just my own personal opinions.

I guess I'm not part of the left. I'm just a lifelong Marxist.

The left wing is stupid. Long live Marxism.

davesearles

Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 344
Location: Vermont

Posted: 08 Jan 2008 10:18 pm Post subject:

John I suggest a long long vacation for you from all things left.

The Greenman

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 138
Location: Western New York

Posted: 09 Jan 2008 09:59 pm Post subject:

What did I do? I did not even write a thing here nor started this thread. Good post Mike. I think critique of the left is just as important as those critiques of Capitalism. I like freedom of speech and religion and to those on the Left I say to them...don't call me comrade. _________________ Just say NO to Leninism!

mikelepore
Site Admin

Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 467

Posted: 10 Jan 2008 08:09 am Post subject:

In several books I've seen diagrams showing philosophical affiliations as tree diagrams, similar to the tree diagrams depicting biological evolution. Birds, an offshoot of the reptiles. Marx, and offshoot of Hegel, who was an offshoot of Kant. One thing that makes De Leonism different from Leninism is the philosophical branch that it grew out of. Judging from the things De Leon wrote, I believe De Leon was first a follower of Thomas Jefferson, and then he discovered Marx, which he added on top of his Jeffersonianism. Jefferson was an offshoot of John Locke. Very different from the Leninist idea that a social change is revolutionary according to how many "democratic abstractions" it suppresses.

mikelepore
Site Admin

Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 467

Posted: 10 Jan 2008 08:26 am Post subject:

Here's a moderator in the revleft forum, ruling on which writers get restricted to the 'opposing ideologies' category:

Quote:

If you back the war in Afghanistan, you are restricted. We oppose imperialism in all its forms. You should know that the U.S. really doesn't give a shit about terror, or it would have been out of there by now. And its not just hindsight. Everyone knows that there is a correlation between U.S. policy and terror.

How about that reasoning?

The Greenman

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 138
Location: Western New York

Posted: 10 Jan 2008 03:59 pm Post subject:

I have not been over on the revleft forum for a long time now. I really don't care what those people do there but the idea of suppression of human rights, civil liberties, freedom of speech, and religion being nothing more than bourgeoisie abstractions makes me wonder who would want to support Leninism? After the bombing of the World Trade Center I was in support of the Afghanistan invasion. The Taliban killed innocent Americans and I don't care who was in those buildings. It was the invasion of Iraq that I questioned a lot but lets not get into that.

Another thing...

Quote:

One thing that makes De Leonism different from Leninism is the philosophical branch that it grew out of. Judging from the things De Leon wrote, I believe De Leon was first a follower of Thomas Jefferson, and then he discovered Marx, which he added on top of his Jeffersonianism. Jefferson was an offshoot of John Locke.

That's what I like about being a De Leonist is that his writings honored democracy. Now here is something that you may not know about Cyrus the King of Babylon...
Cyrus must be credited with creating the first human rights document in history. The stone cylinder now in The British Museum clearly states his policy of toleration of individual cultures and religions. He presents himself as a liberator rather than a conqueror and is scrupulous in his public support of all the many religions which he encounters. It was Cyrus The great who freed the Jews from their many years of slavery in Babylon and sent 40,000 of them back to Israel with lavish gifts to enable the building of a great temple to their
God.
http://www.ancientworlds.net/aw/Article/571664

I made a comment at the forum I visit that he might have known the Noahide Laws. One fellow responded and wrote:

Quote:

I suspect that he was taught the noahide laws by the Jewish religious leaders since the Jews were already in captivity in Babylon when he came to power. He is the one the Persians say freed the Jews.

The idea of human rights, civil liberties and freedoms have been in the making for thousands of years. How can the Leninist justify the suppression of them and call then abstractions? It is no wonder why ordinary people just don't want to hear about Socialism is because the well has been poisoned.

John
_________________
Just say NO to Leninism!

mikelepore
Site Admin

Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 467

Posted: 10 Jan 2008 05:20 pm Post subject:

I never heard of Cyrus before. Thanks for that important pointer.

mikelepore
Site Admin

Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 467

Posted: 10 Jan 2008 05:27 pm Post subject:

My quote for the day: "Not everything that capitalism has brought about is to be rejected. Such a vandal view would have to smash the giant machine of modern production as well. Among the valuable things that capitalism has introduced is the idea of peaceful methods for settling disputes. In feudal days, when lords fell out, production stopped; war had the floor. The courts of law have become the main fields of capitalist, at least internal capitalist battle, and production continues uninterfered with. It matters not how corrupt the courts have become, or one-sided against the working class. The jewel of civilized or peaceful methods for settling disputes is there, however incrusted with slime. Capitalism, being a step forward, as all Socialists recognize, can not help but be a handmaid, however clumsy, to civilized methods. Of a piece with the court method for the peaceful settlement of disputes is the political method. The organization that rejects this method and organizes for force only, reads itself out of the pale of civilization, with the practical result that, instead of seizing a weapon furnished by capitalism, it gives capitalism a weapon against itself." -- De Leon in "As To Politics", 1907

The Greenman

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 138
Location: Western New York

Posted: 11 Jan 2008 05:15 pm Post subject:

And a good quote it is. I have often wondered how, with out parliamentary demands despite the flaws of the system, Socialism can be argued for. The Socialist Industrial Union would be created for the purpose of continuing production, distribution and services. Basically to continue school education, medical care and research, social services, and pave roads and plan building large infrastructures. I do remember reading De Leon as saying that Capitalism has to be fought on both the political and economic front and judging from the quote above both are done in a peaceful manner. Shooting, robbing or bombing hoping that it will lead to a revolution may just get a person some serious prison time. Once there what can you do? I have read the some of the books that were printed before 1917 and all I see is that these writers wanted to implement Socialism as peacefully as possible. However, today there is just way too many Lenin, Stalin and Maoist groupies out there justifying the violence that they once did, preached and wrote. And from the looks of it they are trying to win converts like a religious cult. John T. _________________ Just say NO to Leninism!