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mikelepore

PostPosted: 17 Sep 2004 03:17 pm    Post subject: SOCIALISM: general discussion


General conversation and questions about capitalism or socialism. Beginners' questions are welcome.

ARCHIVED MESSAGES

Sept 2004 to Sept 2005, 168,000 bytes
http://www.deleonism.org/archive/topic004.shtml

Oct 2005 to Aug 2008, 640,000 bytes
http://www.deleonism.org/archive/4-2.htm

LINKS

SLP, "What is socialism?"
http://www.slp.org/what_is.htm

davesearles

PostPosted: 14 Oct 2008 09:04 am    Post subject:


I hadn't known that "Jacob Richter" had been one psydonyms used by the person who ultimately identified himself as Lenin.

So then the person on this list and other lists who calls himself Jacob Richter is hiding his actual identity. Since he is hiding his actual identity and has called for mass executions of capitalist resisters (thank you for spotting the sp error) for psychologial effect, he more than likely is a police agent provocatuer. Just as I had originally suspected.

Is this your full time job Agent Richter?

mikelepore

PostPosted: 14 Oct 2008 02:57 pm    Post subject:


For people, resisters spelled with -ers. Resistors with -ors is Ohm's Law.

Signed: your obsessive-compulsive spell checker

davesearles

PostPosted: 14 Oct 2008 04:32 pm    Post subject:


It's on this list which I ought to look at from time to time.

http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/errors.html#errors

mikelepore

PostPosted: 14 Oct 2008 10:21 pm    Post subject:


The mistake you always make is to spell "lose" with two o's. The mistake I always make is to confuse words that end in -ence and -ance.

davesearles

PostPosted: 14 Oct 2008 10:51 pm    Post subject:


mikelepore wrote:

The mistake you always make is to spell "lose" with two o's. The mistake I always make is to confuse words that end in -ence and -ance.



I will try to remember to lose an o.

Crazy fucking language.

mikelepore

PostPosted: 15 Oct 2008 04:29 am    Post subject:


Would you rather write in ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics? A word would be spelled like this: beetle hummingbird sun grasshopper dragonfly moon.

Jacob Richter

PostPosted: 15 Oct 2008 04:43 am    Post subject:


I prefer this replacement of the 26-letter English alphabet and of other Latin alphabets:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet

mikelepore

PostPosted: 15 Oct 2008 05:22 am    Post subject:


You know what I never understood, there's a population that lives in the Kalihari Desert of Namibia, called the !Kung people, and they speak the !Kung language. The exclamation point is part of the name. That freaks me out.

allhailtuna

PostPosted: 15 Oct 2008 05:34 pm    Post subject:


mikelepore wrote:

You know what I never understood, there's a population that lives in the Kalihari Desert of Namibia, called the !Kung people, and they speak the !Kung language. The exclamation point is part of the name. That freaks me out.


So how do you pronounce !Kung?

mikelepore

PostPosted: 16 Oct 2008 08:29 am    Post subject:


As for !Kung, I've only seen it in print. I wonder how it's pronounced.

I also don't understand why some Chinese names and words which begin the "sh" sound are now being written in English with the "sh" changed to "hs." "Wu Hsing" is something related to Chinese acupuncture. "Hsing I" is a martial art.

Aso what's with the apostrophe? Instead of "chi" (the cosmic life force), some people write ch'i.

What's with the use of a Q for a "ch" sound? Some people write qi instead of chi or ch'i.

What's with underlining letters in Indian names? A group called the The International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON) spells the name Krishna like this: K, an underlined r, an underlined s, an underlined n, and then the final a.

No one explains this stuff to the reader!

The Greenman

PostPosted: 16 Oct 2008 06:45 pm    Post subject:


allhailtuna wrote

So how do you pronounce !Kung?

I believe the "k" would be sounded loudly. I am back on line with a new computer. :D

John T.

The Greenman

PostPosted: 18 Oct 2008 12:37 pm    Post subject:


This fellow, brendanmcooney, is a very good instructor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aVmKaK1_gQ&feature=related

mikelepore

PostPosted: 18 Oct 2008 04:54 pm    Post subject:


In the beginning of the video part 1 of 2, he raises the question of how does exploitation takes place. However by the end of video part 2 of 2 he still doesn't answer it. I understand that he wanted to keep it to 20 minutes (part 1, 10 minutes; part 2, ten minutes) but he still should only raise a question in the beginning if he's going to allocate the time to answer it within those two segments.

The Greenman

PostPosted: 20 Oct 2008 11:44 pm    Post subject:


He has made many other videos which, I believe, are well done and entertaining. His presentations can keep a person's attention. I like the idea that he tries to explain what happens under capitalism through Marx's writings. He does not advocate what people should do or what political ideology to embrace. I like that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrD7LhG0T_w

http://davidharvey.org/

mikelepore

PostPosted: 21 Oct 2008 05:17 am    Post subject:


I'm thinking we should have a new forum topic to talk about techniques for making videos. I learned a lot in the past few months.

davesearles

PostPosted: 21 Oct 2008 07:13 am    Post subject:


go for it.

The Greenman

PostPosted: 03 Nov 2008 06:40 pm    Post subject:


Here is two blasts from the past when the SLP was actually politically active:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVqMkoVRneM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwvGhrf7bxA&feature=related

I also thought this was a segment of Star Trek TNG was impressive. I think the title is wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzqW0YaN2ho&feature=related

mikelepore

PostPosted: 04 Nov 2008 10:44 am    Post subject:


Thanks for those links, John. I didn't know about the existence of the mwvGhrf7bxA video. I had seen the VqMkoVRneM before.

The "left" should learn a lesson. There are plenty of topics that one can talk about without filling a speech with the usual "we demand" stuff.

These videos are educational in the truest sense. One goes away from them with a new sense of why things happen the way they happen.

I think that is so, although we have mentioned a few issues where we think the SLP theory has been imperfect. Still, someone who views those videos should be able to receive some new understanding.

The Greenman

PostPosted: 04 Nov 2008 08:11 pm    Post subject:


I added them on my favorite list over on YouTube. I am working on a video myself but I am waiting on the WIIU becoming a reality. It's a simple video in which I used various colors and different fonts. Basically it says that the WIIU is an organization of labor in which the collective ownership of the MOP would be owned by workers. How? Through a Constitutional Amendment. Then I present each section. I want to conclude with a website and mailing address of the WIIU. The movie would be about a minute in length. I have taken my time in the creation and I want to have maximum effect. I used to be a pretty good artist up till the time my wrist was broken...and then there was the second time.

The Greenman

PostPosted: 04 Nov 2008 10:41 pm    Post subject:


You know you are right about the "demand stuff" because I get the periodical Democratic Left and there is nothing within the pages that suggest workers owning the means of production. It's always about capitalist politicians they support, government intervention, the demand over living wages or shorter hours, etc., or nationalization of ___________fill in the blank. Basically everything has to exist within the framework of capitalism. But no one thinks about the framework of the Constitution and how it can be changed legally. It's amazing how slavery ended under the 13th Amendment. I wonder why so many socialist sneer at the idea of making legal changes unless they believe that salvation comes through a political party.

davesearles

PostPosted: 05 Nov 2008 02:54 am    Post subject:


Mike will probably remember that in Beacon High School we had a big red American History text book. In the back they had the US Constitution and Declaration of Independence. I used to pour over that constitution by the hour. I was facinated by it. I'm now simply amazed that the SLP for years was lead by Daniel DeLeon who according to the SLP bio had won a prize for an essay on CONSTITUTIONAL law at Columbia, really never went into the specific constitutional tools required to convey collective control of the means of production to the workers.

I've written to Columbia to see if I can get a copy of that essay.

mikelepore

PostPosted: 06 Nov 2008 05:22 am    Post subject:


Another reformist platform, this one from the Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL)

Notice the general trend. Reformists who pretend to be socialists all mislead the working class into thinking that the program to achieve socialism consists of the accumulation of reforms to the capitalist system.

Copied out of the middle of today's article about the Obama election,
http://www.pslweb.org/site/News2?JServSessionIdr001=zz3mb91t63.app5b&page=NewsArticle&id=10315&news_iv_ctrl=1261

_______________________________________

Beginning of quotation
_______________________________________


What is needed is a clear program focused on what the new administration should do to meet the needs of the working people; to fulfill the expectations its campaign has created. The PSL
’s La Riva/Puryear Presidential Campaign put forward such demands, not just as words on paper, but as a fighting program, starting with the following:

Declare a State of Housing Emergency and an immediate moratorium on foreclosures, evictions and rent hikes. There are more than 19 million empty housing units in the U.S. today. No one should be homeless.
No layoffs
—jobs for all. Create and fund a public works jobs program to provide employment for millions.
Extend unemployment benefits at full pay for everyone without a job.
Provide health care to all, regardless of ability to pay.
Pass the Employee Free Choice Act so that every worker can have union representation.
Open the books of the banks for public inspection.
A sales tax on stock market transactions (there is none now).
Criminal prosecution of banking, finance, insurance and all other executives whose companies have benefited from the foreclosure crisis.
An end to racist police brutality and mass imprisonment.
Hurricane, flood and other victims of natural disasters must have a government guarantee that they will receive all necessary assistance.
End the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, close down the 800+ U.S. military bases around the world and use the billions spent everyday on the Pentagon to fund people
’s need.

davesearles

PostPosted: 06 Nov 2008 06:58 am    Post subject:


Funny I was just looking at them.. They and the SWP fielded presidential candidates in Vermont.

Collective worker control of the industrail mop and dist. nowhere in sight - not even to themselves.

cmiller2005

PostPosted: 06 Nov 2008 02:41 pm    Post subject:


John,

That sounds like a great project you're working on, I look forward to seeing it. Progress on the WIIU has been slow to non-existent lately. I haven't heard anything from the Communist League or RUSS. I was hoping that these two groups would form the core needed to get things going but I have had no contact from them in some time. I will e-mail them and see where they stand. Of course, I would like to have you involved also.

Another thing I was thinking about was starting a Yahoo group to attract others who might be interested.

mikelepore

PostPosted: 06 Nov 2008 07:50 pm    Post subject:


Carl, you may want to post messages on the IWW's discussion list too. I don't know its current status but it used to be email based (listserv or majordomo), and I believe their was a members only list and a public list.

As I said to Dave about his activity, let's have a press release. I know of several places to send it if I only had one to send.