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PowerKord
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PostPosted: 08 Apr 2005 02:38 am    Post subject: Modifications To The De Leonist Program Required?

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mikelepore
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Joined: 17 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 08 Apr 2005 06:57 am    Post subject:

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I think it needs work in the area of any policy making that isn't industry-specific. What about policies that affect everyone, such as the ethical questions about cloning? I lend toward favoring a bicameral congress, where policies require majority approval of worker respresentatives and public representatives.

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PowerKord
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PostPosted: 17 Apr 2005 11:27 pm    Post subject: null

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mikelepore
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PostPosted: 18 Apr 2005 02:49 am    Post subject:

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I've never thought that an "-ism" could all right or wrong. It's each sentence that is either right or wrong. Poeple often ask me, for example, "Can Marxism be verified?" I am compelled to reply - which hypothesis?, which principle? - one point at a time. And so I'm more than 95 percent a Marxist, more than 95 percent a De Leonist. I don't believe there is a single or unified "-ism" to be defended. When I read them, I generally agree, and occasionally disagree.

Consider the following form De Leon's 'The Burning Question..." --

"
Civilized society will know no such ridiculous thing as geographic constituencies. It will only know industrial constituencies. The parliament of civilization in America will consist, not of Congressmen from geographic districts, but of representatives of trades throughout the land, and their legislative work will not be the complicated one which a society of conflicting interests, such as capitalism, requires but the easy one which can be summed up in the statistics of the wealth needed, the wealth producible, and the work required - and that any average set of workingmen's representatives are fully able to ascertain, infinitely better than our modern rhetoricians in Congress."

There's a lot to digest there. Can it be either all correct or all incorrect? No, not unless the author was an angel or a devil. He was a human being, so it can be substantially correct or substantially incorrect, but not entirely correct or entirely incorrect.

I don't agree that socialist democracy can be' ...
summed up in the statistics of the wealth needed, the wealth producible, and the work required." There are many other issues that will be on everyone's mind. Technology has crossed the line which some people call "playing God" We can clone a million Einsteins, but that doesn't mean that we should. I think the future will be an age of great ethical problems, not industrial ones.

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davesearles



Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 353
Location: Vermont

PostPosted: 18 Apr 2005 12:53 pm    Post subject:

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Vince wrote:

This topic covers whether individuals consider the De Leonist program a complete blueprint, or not. If not, what else is required to complete it?

Dave writes:

I think the premise is off here.

SIU is the goal. Speciifically how the SIU is going to work is going to be the concern of the workers' democracy. We are not that workers' democracy. We can pipe dream to our hearts content as to this notion or that notion, but it is not up to us to say this particular is how it should be.

The program is what we do , it should not be what the SIU should do. We establish our own program as to what we are going to do to convince the workers to move toward establishing the SIU.

As to "jurisprudence", this is only how I would see it - that in this country, anyway, U.S. common law would contine to be observed until modified by the SIU. Just as English common law as it existed in 1776 was the basis for U.S. jurisprudence. And this even goes back to Roman law - becuase the English common law was Roman law until modified by the English.

But again, I don't suggest that this should be a definitive answer that should be binding upon the revolution.

Dave

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mikelepore
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PostPosted: 18 Apr 2005 02:54 pm    Post subject:

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Why should the SIU make the laws? Why not one vote for every adult, regardless of whether they work?

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